Author Topic: MIDI overview for Gecho Loopsynth?  (Read 329 times)

michelrandahl

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MIDI overview for Gecho Loopsynth?
« on: October 22, 2020, 10:46:19 AM »
I just received my Gecho Loopsynth two days ago, and I am very pleased with it so far and have already spend lots of hours in its company, especially with the looper, the granular effect thingie and the clouds reverb. Managing the clipping and sound levels can be a bit challenging at times, but a part of my also enjoys these 'untamed' sounds...

While playing around on my MIDI keyboard, I quickly found out that some channels can react to CC and pitch.
My mod-wheel seems to use CC 1, and I noticed that this modifies something in the granular effect (maybe it's the amount of voices?). On other channels I noticed that the pitch wheel affects the amount of reverb.
After experiencing this I tried out CC 0 to 8, to see if any channels would react to other CC's, -but it doesn't seem so, and I didn't want to try out all 128 CC's...

Is there an official MIDI specification somewhere? I couldn't find it anywhere, but maybe I overlooked something?
I like the sensors, but I think it would be awesome to be able to use MIDI CC to control the sensor effects. And maybe use sensors in conjunction with CC, so they add up...

mario

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Re: MIDI overview for Gecho Loopsynth?
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2020, 11:01:42 AM »
Hi Michel, happy to hear you are enjoying the loopsynth!

I've only tested it with Arturia Keystep, which transmits on CC1. And it is usually tied to the most interesting parameter / the one effect of which is most prominent in the sound - so you're right it's amount of voices in granular, and the pitch bend control is linked to de-tune.

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Is there an official MIDI specification somewhere? I couldn't find it anywhere, but maybe I overlooked something?
No I haven't got to do that yet - thanks for reminding, I need to update channel list with more details about MIDI controls where it was recently added.

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I like the sensors, but I think it would be awesome to be able to use MIDI CC to control the sensor effects.

The other cc numbers are ignored, but it would be easy to link them to the other 3 sensors. And in Clouds engine they could directly control the 8 most useful out of the 10 parameters available.

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And maybe use sensors in conjunction with CC, so they add up...
That is certainly possible too.

What controller do you use - does it have more wheels or does it rather allow to select what the one or two wheels do?

Cheers,
Mario

michelrandahl

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Re: MIDI overview for Gecho Loopsynth?
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2020, 01:06:10 PM »
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The other cc numbers are ignored, but it would be easy to link them to the other 3 sensors. And in Clouds engine they could directly control the 8 most useful out of the 10 parameters available.
That would be so awesome to have!
Even though most controllers only have 8 faders or knobs, you could enable CC for all 10, then users can just assign the CC's they want on their controller. (I also suspect that some folks would like to be able to control everything in their DAW through MIDI)

I recently decided to learn piano/synth improvisation, so I bought the Arturia Keylab MkII keyboard. It has 61 keys, pitch wheel, mod wheel, aftertouch (although I don't use it because I feel it lacks fine grained expressivity), sustain pedal input, expression pedal input, 9 knobs and 9 faders.
It is super easy to configure the knobs, mod wheel, expression pedal and faders to specific CC's.


If you are going to work with the MIDI implementation later, then I would also like to add 'sustain' to the wish list :)...
For example if you make a chord, then you could just tap the sustain pedal and then both of your hands would be free to use the sensors.

mario

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Re: MIDI overview for Gecho Loopsynth?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2020, 07:28:30 PM »
That's a nice keyboard! And it has true MIDI, great. I was looking for something simpler / that takes less space and still has 8 knobs or faders, but all seem to only have USB MIDI. Well, I guess it is time to hack the generic USB controller that I have (by adding Arduino with USB host shield).

About sustain - is that not achievable by the "MIDI Polyphony" setting?
http://gechologic.com/settings_leaflet_explained

I guess SUSTAIN_CHORD is close to what you want? (except that the sustain will be there all the time, but from my experience that is good enough in most channels).

Of course, better to have an external pedal to control this. The modification for the firmware would probably just be as simple as "ignore note-off messages while the pedal is pressed, release all notes when pedal is released"... or, if you want to just tap the pedal shortly to sustain the chord, then "ignore note-off messages from now, until another note-on comes in, and release all previous notes then". what do you think, would that work?

michelrandahl

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Re: MIDI overview for Gecho Loopsynth?
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2020, 07:58:31 PM »
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About sustain - is that not achievable by the "MIDI Polyphony" setting?
http://gechologic.com/settings_leaflet_explained
These settings looks very interesting!, seems I missed them when I read the settings leaflet :)

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Of course, better to have an external pedal to control this. The modification for the firmware would probably just be as simple as "ignore note-off messages while the pedal is pressed, release all notes when pedal is released"... or, if you want to just tap the pedal shortly to sustain the chord, then "ignore note-off messages from now, until another note-on comes in, and release all previous notes then". what do you think, would that work?
I think the notes should be held while the sustain pedal is pressed, and the notes should be released when the pedal is released.. In my experience, so far, that is how other devices work (and real pianos for that matter)... Although I wouldn't be supriced if there are devices that deviates and have other sustain rules :P..

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I was looking for something simpler / that takes less space and still has 8 knobs or faders, but all seem to only have USB MIDI. Well, I guess it is time to hack the generic USB controller that I have (by adding Arduino with USB host shield).
I agree that the world lacks small MIDI controllers with true MIDI :)... Although I suspect that the MIDI 2.0 protocol only will work with USB..
I wish that my small Korg nanoKey2 keyboard could act as MIDI host and that it had the true MIDI port as well...

I have made a sort of poor mans solution to the problem, with a javascript solution that works in a smartphone browser..
https://mnie-midi-test.s3.amazonaws.com/generic.html (this is just a simple prototype that makes it easy to connect two MIDI devices and select MIDI channel for each.. I plan to do some more advanced stuff with web-MIDI in the near future...)
With this solution I can use my phone as MIDI host and connect my nanoKey and Korg NTS-1 to the phone through a cheap USB hub... Then the phone functions both as power bank and MIDI mediator between the controller and the synth :P
I also have an old USB->MIDI device lying around somewhere, so I could use this solution as well for playing with MIDI on my gecho loopsynth when I want to sit outside and make music.

jluc

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Re: MIDI overview for Gecho Loopsynth?
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2020, 07:27:58 AM »
hi


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I was looking for something simpler / that takes less space and still has 8 knobs or faders, but all seem to only have USB MIDI. Well, I guess it is time to hack the generic USB controller that I have (by adding Arduino with USB host shield).
Quote
I agree that the world lacks small MIDI controllers with true MIDI :)... Although I suspect that the MIDI 2.0 protocol only will work with USB..
I wish that my small Korg nanoKey2 keyboard could act as MIDI host and that it had the true MIDI port as well...

I just received this little card to interface a Craftsynth V1:

https://fr.hobbytronics.co.uk/usb-host-board-v24

 I have to find time to plug it in but the card is pretty cheap and I'm hopeful ...maybe....

regards
jluc

mario

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Re: MIDI overview for Gecho Loopsynth?
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2020, 11:54:04 AM »
I have made a sort of poor mans solution to the problem, with a javascript solution that works in a smartphone browser..

Very cool! I did not know this was possible. If also virtual COM ports can be handled in a similar way then we could implement MIDI over USB in Gecho (not much work on firmware required, redirecting the data from one USART port to another is trivial). The question is if there is an equivalent browser object / if smartphone has support for that kind of device.

It would also enable a simpler update mechanism - over the USB cable, which is currently only supported in Windows but if it was in browser then it should work everywhere.

mario

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Re: MIDI overview for Gecho Loopsynth?
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2020, 12:19:02 PM »
I just received this little card to interface a Craftsynth V1:

https://fr.hobbytronics.co.uk/usb-host-board-v24

 I have to find time to plug it in but the card is pretty cheap and I'm hopeful ...maybe....

Hi Jean-Luc, haven't seen that one - hope you will figure it out and let me know! It seems to use a different chip to what I've got - this Arduino shield and also this board and found library and some discussion about them here and here.

jluc

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Re: MIDI overview for Gecho Loopsynth?
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2020, 02:24:49 PM »
hi mario


i confirm my little board works fine with my craftsynth V1.
I havenít test all the controllers but notes, pitch bend & modwheel works fine. I  have to test all the others  controllers soon and i'm  optimist.
regards
jluc

mario

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Re: MIDI overview for Gecho Loopsynth?
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2020, 09:10:18 PM »
Hi Jean-Luc,
That's great! At first I haven't realized that it works out of the box, assuming it was just another USB-host board that requires external circuit to drive it, but it is actually a complete solution, fantastic! I'm ordering one of these too - will be much easier to use it to upgrade my controller than using the Arduino shields :)
Cheers,
Mario