Author Topic: Questions/request on chord progression v2 03/2021  (Read 183 times)

SuNo-san

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Questions/request on chord progression v2 03/2021
« on: March 19, 2021, 12:57:08 PM »
[Disclaimer I am asking this question as a newbie, the topic may have been answered elsewhere - I don't think so (I watched and read every files/video/discussion... but I may have missed something. Sorry if this is a duplicate.]

I wanted to listen to the chord progression and play with it. There is a possibility through channels 1111-1114, BUT, these also feature the very nice demo soundscape. One solution is to reset one of them (suggestion read in the forum): OK but convoluted. Another one is to lower the mix of the soundscape (through the S2 sensor+ setup menu) : OK but complicated AND lower is not enough, mute is better.

Again on chord progression I read in the V2 channels documentation, channel 111 "...where the progression is accessible by other channels". I could find only Channel 31 and 1111-1114 that use the chord progression.

SO...
Question 1: are there any other channel than 31 and 1111-1114 that can load the chord progression

suggestion 1: create a channel (say 1115  :o, I mean 2111) that play slot 0.
suggestion 2: for every channel with two digits, and for these that make sense, create the counterpart starting with 21xx that mix the current chord progression

Thanks to Mario for creating this unconventional device.

G.

mario

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Re: Questions/request on chord progression v2 03/2021
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2021, 09:40:06 AM »
Hi and welcome! :)

Thank you for interesting questions. This indeed needs some explanation and I don't remember it being discussed anywhere yet.

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...to lower the mix of the soundscape (through the S2 sensor+ setup menu) : OK but complicated AND lower is not enough, mute is better.

If the background soundscape is completely muted, everything ends quiet. That's because of how the subtractive synthesis sound engine works. The chord progression (and melody line, if present) controls a chain of low-pass or high-pass filters. If there was nothing coming in, either white noise (as in any of the "wind"channels) or a sound of water, rich in frequencies, there would be nothing to filter. To hear the chord progression on its own we'd need to let it control some other kind of engine (FM, wavetable etc...), that can generate sounds on its own. Or at least supply some sound into it all the time, via mics or line input. Or is this what you wanted to achieve, to have no background at all, only filter incoming signal? The lower limit for sample volume could be easily changed to zero, or we could add a "background off" button shortcut to accommodate this.

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Again on chord progression I read in the V2 channels documentation, channel 111 "...where the progression is accessible by other channels". I could find only Channel 31 and 1111-1114 that use the chord progression.

Yes, there are only those 4 "soundscape" channels that can make use of the custom defined chord progressions, as there are only those 4 soundscapes, and the granular sampler is polyphonic so it can use it too. By the way with use of a SD card, the "water" background sample can be temporarily replaced with a vaw file from the card, by pressing the awkward combination of SET+RST (hold SET, press RST shortly while something plays), but this is not finished yet with regard to choosing a file and adjusting its sound levels, and therefore not documented.

I believe that no other sound engine currently implemented can make any use of "notes" at all. Dekrispator (#33) can use the melody line, but the necessary controls are not there yet, it's one of those neglected channels based on a 3rd party sound engine that need more attention (MI Clouds being the other one, it has more parameters internally than what is accessible through Gecho's limited user interface or MIDI implementation, the only way remaining is to download the config file to SD card and edit it). I plan to expand some of this in the next fw update.

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suggestion 1: create a channel (say 1115  :o, I mean 2111) that play slot 0.

OK so if I understand you correctly, you meant this new channel to play chord progression on its own, which as explained above will not work, but it might make sense to have such a channel just for verification that all notes are defined well (sometimes it is hard to hear it all when other noises are involved). This could use a simple FM or sample based synth engine.

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suggestion 2: for every channel with two digits, and for these that make sense, create the counterpart starting with 21xx that mix the current chord progression

That's a good idea, and plenty of space for this kind of shortcuts. This could be even user definable by editing config file [channels] section; I doubt that the current format supports "slot 0" as a chord progression source but it's very easy to add.

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Thanks to Mario for creating this unconventional device.

Thank you for your support, much appreciated, mainly in these times - we could not keep doing this without enthusiastic people like you!

SuNo-san

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Re: Questions/request on chord progression v2 03/2021
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2021, 08:57:53 PM »
@mario

Thanks for the explanation. I am not sure to understand all the explanations and reasoning about the reasons why a soundsscape is necessary (don't explain again, I get the gist, not the details).

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OK so if I understand you correctly, you meant this new channel to play chord progression on its own, which as explained above will not work, but it might make sense to have such a channel just for verification that all notes are defined well (sometimes it is hard to hear it all when other noises are involved). This could use a simple FM or sample based synth engine.

HOWEVER, "yes" to your reply. Chord progression+mics+streaming input (I can plug in my iPod (yes, I still own one) or another synth).

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That's a good idea, and plenty of space for this kind of shortcuts. This could be even user definable by editing config file [channels] section; I doubt that the current format supports "slot 0" as a chord progression source but it's very easy to add.

I believe I could do that indeed... IF you were to point me to a (even vague) manual. It seems that the website has secret entries, e.g., pages that are not accessible through a chain of pointers from the home. I have seen things about the config file, firmware updates, etc. But I would not know how to access or replace the config file. "Programming" it would be another story.

G.

mario

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Re: Questions/request on chord progression v2 03/2021
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2021, 08:26:30 PM »
Quote
Thanks for the explanation. I am not sure to understand all the explanations and reasoning about the reasons why a soundsscape is necessary (don't explain again, I get the gist, not the details).

OK then, but a better analogy came to my mind now, which I should have used in the first place: this method of shaping the sound is like cutting something out of wood, first you need a chunk of wood and then it's shaped by removing the material (subtractive synthesis, where the "wood" is incoming signal). Other types of synthesis work rather like when you get raw malleable material (e.g. wires or strings) and shape something out of it, by adding it together.

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I believe I could do that indeed... IF you were to point me to a (even vague) manual. It seems that the website has secret entries, e.g., pages that are not accessible through a chain of pointers from the home. I have seen things about the config file, firmware updates, etc. But I would not know how to access or replace the config file. "Programming" it would be another story.

Yes I need to document all this, it's just that almost nobody was asking about this so instead I've focused on things that I knew people care about more. The whole process of manipulating the config is unnecessarily complicated, it will require some changes in the fw (hence another update) to make this simpler. But I'll surely do it as some new channels that make more extensive use of sampled material stored on SD card (e.g. a kind of "mellotron" channel similar to #222 but with possibility of loading custom samples) will benefit from it.

Thanks again for your questions and suggestions!  :)
« Last Edit: March 22, 2021, 10:10:51 PM by mario »

SuNo-san

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Re: Questions/request on chord progression v2 03/2021
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2021, 05:30:53 PM »
Quote
Yes I need to document all this, it's just that almost nobody was asking about this so instead I've focused on things that I knew people care about more. The whole process of manipulating the config is unnecessarily complicated, it will require some changes in the fw (hence another update) to make this simpler. But I'll surely do it as some new channels that make more extensive use of sampled material stored on SD card (e.g. a kind of "mellotron" channel similar to #222 but with possibility of loading custom samples) will benefit from it.

If it is so complicated, I will rather wait for the new release. There is enough to do with the current one.

Thanks